playing catch-up:
Jul. 10th, 2014 05:04 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
psybelleI think I'm mostly caught up on the usual suspects. And, as usual, both Peter Watts and John Michael Greer are spot-on (and David Brin is starting to look like a complete ass, but that simply scores another point for "do NOT read the comments").
And as I contemplate Greer's ruminations on the fall of civilizations and the similarity of various "dark ages" … and I remember the Motie museum, and think about the Long Now's Rosetta Stone project and Clock … I wonder if it's possible to salvage more knowledge this time?
What would it take to avoid a global Dark Age? What might it take to "reboot" a somewhat technical civilization (something we might recognize/feel comfortable in) in the absence of fossil fuels?
I am an introvert, and feel like I'm lacking some crucial insights into basic human power-structures and dynamics; have never been a keen student of history. So, I have absolutely no idea how something like the preservation of knowledge over centuries of strife and dissolution might be accomplished. I really don't even know where to start. But it's going to be occupying a good bit of my thought processes for a while…
(And, in my usual practical/cynical fashion, I am not at all surprised that the silverbacks are getting agitated, given where we are on the general downslope of "civilization" - buckle your seatbelts and get your kill-switches ready, decide ahead of time where you look back and where you decide not to be seen in the first place.)
And as I contemplate Greer's ruminations on the fall of civilizations and the similarity of various "dark ages" … and I remember the Motie museum, and think about the Long Now's Rosetta Stone project and Clock … I wonder if it's possible to salvage more knowledge this time?
What would it take to avoid a global Dark Age? What might it take to "reboot" a somewhat technical civilization (something we might recognize/feel comfortable in) in the absence of fossil fuels?
I am an introvert, and feel like I'm lacking some crucial insights into basic human power-structures and dynamics; have never been a keen student of history. So, I have absolutely no idea how something like the preservation of knowledge over centuries of strife and dissolution might be accomplished. I really don't even know where to start. But it's going to be occupying a good bit of my thought processes for a while…
(And, in my usual practical/cynical fashion, I am not at all surprised that the silverbacks are getting agitated, given where we are on the general downslope of "civilization" - buckle your seatbelts and get your kill-switches ready, decide ahead of time where you look back and where you decide not to be seen in the first place.)
(no subject)
Date: 2014-07-11 03:21 am (UTC)the internet is swell but not robust,
I just got two books (poetry) at a yard sale. They were both from 1900
Can you imagine a more than a hundred year old computer being still useful? We have files that can not be read not even half that old.
so yes, book binding and storage, and a *Culture* that Respects books-and-knowledge.
We need to learn and Teach useful skills
(no subject)
Date: 2014-07-11 03:51 am (UTC)In his most recent post, Greer makes a couple of points that are chilling and quite thorny: one is that in sharply declining/late stage terminal cultures. general knowledge gets lumped in with the culture of the ruling (oppressive) class and is automatically suspect/devalued to those of the struggling classes; another is that preserving deeply technical/theoretical knowledge in a subsistence culture is just damned difficult; another problem is the cherry-picking, editing, and filters (cultural, religious, ethical, you name it) of whatever preservationists who might exist. That "culture that respects books and knowledge" is problematic on multiple levels… even if you assume basic literacy and the ability to use books (also unlikely in subsistence cultures).
Learn and teach useful skills - absolutely! I'm questioning one level up - is there a way to create institutions outside of the monastery model to do so for the long-term, on the scale of the Long Now projects? And if not, if "monasteries" are as good as it gets (likely, given some of the other things I've read); how do we do better than the last Dark Age?
(no subject)
Date: 2014-07-11 05:27 am (UTC)If we want to preserve knowledge/"life" we need a functional and balanced ecosystem - trees and annuals - monasteries and myths/sagas, stealing from Greer yet again. How do we shape the environment so as to "breed true" for both long and short generations?
(no subject)
Date: 2014-07-12 06:48 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2014-07-12 06:53 pm (UTC)The Watts post in question is here: http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=4937
It's the combination of the two that gets me, though - the military has been putting out public whitepapers for years now talking about the threats implicit in both climate change and peak oil, so it really should come as no surprise that the Powers That Be are investing heavily in surveillance and control technologies...